The Next AI Wave: GTM Trends for 2025

Julia Nimchinski [ 02:00:38 ] * Mark? Oh, sorry, I thought you were answering the next question, I didn’t realize that was for me. So I actually do have a startup in mind, and one of the things that I’m I’m excited about is product market fit in general. And I have a process that I go through with my clients in terms of very rapidly experimenting and iterating with, you know, different micro target markets, messaging, you know, positioning, pricing, packaging, so that we can discover the next aspect of product market fit. And I think that’s something that’s really tailor-made for AI to to put on steroids. I’m excited about a new class of AI that I’ve seen called a problem decomposition algorithms, which is the ability to actually form hypotheses and break down a problem into into pieces.

Mark Organ [ 02:01:33 ] * And I could see the ability to use that in order to help companies get to product market fit faster. So that’s my interest. If someone wants to steal my idea, go ahead. Mark, we want you to start another startup. It’s about time. Okay, it’s true. I’ve been on the beach long enough. Thank you so much, Mark. Next up, we have a subject I’m really excited about. We do yearly GTM Trends reports on gtmmag. com. And Doug, you contributed many times. You need no introduction. But for all of you watching, Doug Landis is the CEO of DLA, X Emergence Capital, and Box. Welcome, Doug. Yo, what’s happening? It’s good to be here. And yes, I have lots of opinions, if you know me. And I like to share them.

Doug Landis [ 02:02:27 ] But the good news is this conversation: This conversation with this incredible panel is not going to be driven by me and my opinions, although I will chime in with questions and commentary as I do. But my goal is to pull from all of these incredible individuals, Ben, Marlee, Manisha, Rohan, Omer. Like, I mean, y’all-I mean, you’re in the heart of building amazing companies right now, and kind of at a broad spectrum. And what I really want to understand is what we’re thinking about in terms of go-to-market for next year. I do also want to highlight the fact that I don’t want to just talk about AI. While I know AI is going to play a role, there’s going to be an element of like, okay, where are we going to focus on AI first?

Doug Landis [ 02:03:09 ] * And where are we going to leverage the existing investments that we already have? Because guess what? Your CFO is like, no more tech, you know, because you haven’t proven that the tech that you bought has actually had an impact. So I really want to hone in on that. But before I – okay, I’ll shut up now. But Julia, as we go through introductions, one thing I would love to hear from everybody. Is kind of a prediction for go-to-market in 2025. Cool. It would be really great to re-watch this next year, Another session. Right. Merrilee, let’s start with you. Hi, everybody. I’m Merrilee Baer. I’m the CRO of Gainsight. It’s good to be here today. So my prediction is we’re going to continue to see a consolidation of tools.

Marilee Bear [ 02:03:51 ] * There are so many tools out there today, mainly driven by AI. And I believe that we are going to start to see those come together to take more of a platform approach, as there’s natural consolidation. And then it will all be rounded out with a much more consultative approach. I’m seeing a lot of shiny object syndrome out there today with really cool tools, but not a lot of thoughtfulness when it comes to, like, how do I actually embed this into my workflow? And so I think our teams are going to have to be much more consultative. Awesome. Let’s get back to our stage. Let’s roll. Oh, all right. Cool. I don’t know if you’re going to go through everybody. I had a chance to. So, all right, Ben, talk to me.

Doug Landis [ 02:04:39 ] * Background, who are you? And give us your prediction for 2025. Great. Thanks for having me. So I’m Ben Samuels. I am currently CRO at a company called OneMind, where we create digital superhumans out of the face, voice, and brain of some of your best sellers and GTOs. And I’m a CRO at WeWork, which we can talk about in a little more detail. Up until recently, I was CRO at WeWork. I was there for about seven and a half years through hypergrowth all the way to restructuring. And then when I met Amanda Calo, who was the founder of Sixth Sense, she had this new cool product called OneMind. I recognized it straight away as someone who ran a pretty complex, large sales organization of about 600 people.

Ben Samuels [ 02:05:19 ] This was the first time I’d seen AI that I could actually implement and might drive change. So I jumped to join Amanda. Amanda and try to scale up this really cool company. And I think what I think will happen in 2025 is that different parts of the actual sales organization and sellers are going to be much more disrupted by AI than I think most people are anticipating, especially at the more entry-level jobs and the less value-added jobs. By the same token, those who are really good are going to be supercharged through tools at AI. I think those who are good are going to be great. And you’re going to end up losing a lot of media. And you’re going to end up losing mediocre talent along the way, which will be a benefit.

Doug Landis [ 02:06:00 ] * Sounds like we need some tools to actually help up-level those people that are mediocre. What’s happening, Ben? Good to see you. Manisha, how are you? Welcome to the show. Hey, I’m good. Thank you for having me. So I’m Manisha, CEO and founder of Sifthub. We are changing the way technical sales is done today. I mean, I think all of us always wish we had the best sales engineer on every call. And it’s practically impossible. But now you can have your best sales engineer on every call with Sifthub. One prediction for 20/25, I think it’s a blessing and curse because of AI. There are too many emails going on, too many LinkedIn connects going on. So instead of B2B selling, we will see more P2P selling, which is person-to-person selling.

Manisha Raisinghani [ 02:06:51 ] * Because ultimately, you know, there are people on both sides, buyers and sellers. And buyers would want to buy more from personalized brands, I would say. So I think that’s going to become very, very important. And that’s how, you know, we will see the way of selling will change a lot. Interesting. So you think personalization is no longer going to be at scale, but it’s actually going to be real. How many people right now, when you get a LinkedIn post or a comment, you look at it, you’re like, hmm. Your radar goes off. You’re like, that kind of feels like it was a yeah. It was a chat bot that wrote that. Or the emails that we get in our inbox all day long. Rohan, what’s happening? Congrats on the recent funding.

Rohan Suri [ 02:07:35 ] * Welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. I’m Rohan. I’m one of the founders at Nooks. For those who don’t know, Nooks is a; we’re a Series B company. We build AI sales assistance for pipeline gen for B2B sales teams. We have, and we kind of focus on like calling, emailing, and list building is kind of our focus areas. In terms of prediction for 2025, I would say in general, AI is going to make email and LinkedIn a lot harder to stand out on. Because as AI gets better and better, the cost of doing outreach on those channels decreases. And there’s going to be a resurgence on one, leveraging first-party data, so information from webinars, marketing events.

Manisha Raisinghani [ 02:06:51 ] * Because ultimately, you know, there are people on both sides, buyers and sellers. And buyers would want to buy more from personalized brands, I would say. So I think that’s going to become very, very important. And that’s how, you know, we will see the way of selling will change a lot. Interesting. So you think personalization is no longer going to be at scale, but it’s actually going to be real. How many people right now, when you get a LinkedIn post or a comment, you look at it, you’re like, hmm. Your radar goes off. You’re like, that kind of feels like it was a yeah. It was a chat bot that wrote that. Or the emails that we get in our inbox all day long. Rohan, what’s happening? Congrats on the recent funding.

Rohan Suri [ 02:07:35 ] * Welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. I’m Rohan. I’m one of the founders at Nooks. For those who don’t know, Nooks is a; we’re a Series B company. We build AI sales assistance for pipeline gen for B2B sales teams. We have, and we kind of focus on like calling, emailing, and list building is kind of our focus areas. In terms of prediction for 2025, I would say in general, AI is going to make email and LinkedIn a lot harder to stand out on. Because as AI gets better and better, the cost of doing outreach on those channels decreases. And there’s going to be a resurgence on one, leveraging first-party data, so information from webinars, marketing events.

Rohan Suri [ 02:08:31 ] And two, there’s going to be a resurgence on like using the phone as a channel to gather insight, gather intel, and actually make like really targeted plays on your prospects. So, resurgence on the phones as well as other channels being crowded out. All right. Interesting. I just noticed that I feel like everybody here is a part of an AI-first sales technology company, which is really fascinating. Because I want to challenge you all to think about, take your AI-first hat off, except for Marilee, of course. The two of us were like old school here. But I’m going to ask everybody to like take their hats off from an AI perspective every now and again in this conversation. But we’re not done yet because we have one more person. Omer, great to see you again.

Omer Gotlieb [ 02:09:18 ] Welcome to the show. Great to see you, Doug. And thank you for inviting me. Happy to be here. So, Omer Gottlieb, I previously co-founded Tutango and previously competed with Marilee’s colleague at Gainsight for about 12 years. I run most of our go-to-market functions over there. I really enjoyed it. We sold the company to a private equity about three years ago. I retired, and then a year ago, actually got bored and started a new startup, which is Salespeak. And Salespeak is mainly, it’s actually mainly for you. Think of all of you; you are also, you are sellers, but also buyers. Salespeak is here to really redefine the buying experience. I think the B2B buying experience is broken, and we’re here to actually fix it. And that’s one of my predictions: I’m hoping it’s going to be 2025.

Omer Gotlieb [ 02:10:09 ] * Don’t take me up on it; maybe it will be longer. There’s going to be a lot of junk, really a lot of junk and garbage, a lot of AI tools that are really shiny. But we’re not going to see results. I think companies that are going to focus maybe less on making your sales team efficient and much more about making your customers successful. Gainsight is a customer success company. It’s about customer success. How do we make our customers successful with AI or without AI? As you said, I think that’s going to be the winning companies of the next batch. Yep. That’s the goal to make all of our customers more successful. Interestingly enough, as I think about 2025, the thing that always jumps out at me virtually every year is the reality of the silos that continue to exist between sales, marketing, and customer success teams.

Doug Landis [ 02:10:57 ] Whether that’s a lack of knowledge sharing, handoff processes with customers-I’m going through this, I decided to buy a product and I get handed off to customer success. I have to start all over again with my relationships. I think one of the things we’ll see, hopefully we’ll see in 2025, is more sharing of context and insights so that go-to-market teams can be much more successful. We can be more in sync with one another and actually be able to collaborate better. That’s my goal. I hope we see that. I hope we see that technology can certainly help, but it kind of leads me into the first question that I want to throw out to everybody, which is like, what do you all see are some of the biggest problems that need to be solved for in 2025 from a go-to-market perspective?

Doug Landis [ 02:11:38 ] * What, what’s a major shift that you’re seeing? You’re like, oh, wow, this is going to be a real, real challenge for, for companies going forward. Especially in the, in the world of, of go-to-market teams. What do y’all think? Marilee, I want to start with Marilee, though. The only reason why I’m going to pick on her for a second is because you’re in a big company. And so many of these, so many, you know, everybody here is a lot of smaller companies. I’m going to kind of start with a big company because everyone’s going to try and sell to you. So this just a little set the stage for everybody. Pay attention to what she says, because everything that all y’all are building in these little startups need to address her.

Marilee Bear [ 02:12:12 ] * So we’re going to start with her. Yeah, I mean, I think the biggest standout is just being really clear in your messaging and knowing who your audience is. And those are super basic things. This is not groundbreaking. But sometimes there’s so much that you can get just from being going straight back to basics. But I get a lot of reach outs every day. And it’s so surprising to me, like where it’s like some of these messages are so off-center and just nothing to do with what I’m concerned about right now. You know, I think for every SaaS leader. Right now, we’re grappling with, you know, our gross retention rate and our overall bookings. And so, like, those are the two things, if you want to say, keep me up at night.

Marilee Bear [ 02:12:53 ] * And I think that that’s, you know, if you’re messaging is something around there, if you have a tool that can help make life easier, that I’m interested if it’s something to do with like you have a list of, you know, CIOs in the manufacturing space. Probably not something that I’m super interested in right now. So, I laugh, but it’s just. The stuff we get, excuse my French, the stuff we get inbound, you’re like, what did you do? Yeah. Any homework whatsoever. Fine. So, okay. So I agree. I mean, look, and it’s interesting guys, I’ve, I’ve listened to some of the panels earlier and, you know, messaging positioning, getting the right narrative down is such a fundamental element. And, to be honest, I think it, I agree.

Doug Landis [ 02:13:32 ] * I, I think it’s so important right now because there’s so much noise out there, like, to be honest, being able to parse all of you right now on the panel outside of Merrilee as to like what you all do. And how that could matter to her. I think it’s just a really interesting exercise. So, um, yeah. What, what else, but I have some, I have some, uh, bad news for you and maybe for Merrilee, it’s going to get, it is going to get worse because right now the cost of sending an email to Merrilee has gone down dramatically. I, before that people were able to actually have to invest a lot of time and resources and effort to get to her and craft a good email. Oh, there’s going to be 50 and 500.

Omer Gotlieb [ 02:14:13 ] * So you need to do something a bit different because otherwise, again, she needs it, she has an important KPIs to actually get to it, but those things are not going to get to her. So I think, you know, it is rising above the noise, but what we need to remember that the game tomorrow is completely different than what it was today. Doug, if I come back to, to maybe something you said right at the beginning about alignment between marketing, sales, customer success. So I would say the biggest change that I saw in Merrilee. Revenue and the design of our org at WeWork was when actually we rolled marketing and rev ops and customer success all into, to my, to my org, the CRO org, it changed everything for years.

Ben Samuels [ 02:14:55 ] * We just spent all our time fighting, uh, around for attribution budget, you know, marketing says, well, that I generated that lead. And then someone else says, well, no, I had that relationship and you spend all this really ridiculous amount of time trying to fight for, for attribution relevance. And the moment we said to marketing, okay. You’re going to own part of the budget on the consumer side of the business, right? You’re here is your goal. I’m dividing up quota. You own this much quota. And by the way, we’re all in this together. And if you’re not going to hit quota, we’ll figure out a solution. It changed everything. We then were much more diligent and thoughtful about how we spent. We would all agree on how we measured success because we realized that just spending to generate more shitty leads.

Ben Samuels [ 02:15:39 ] Sorry, you started, um, you really had a terrible. Declining ROI. And why would you spend that incremental dollar when we can do something else with it? Because their goal was wrong. Their goal was MQL regardless of quality. So once that all got aligned, it changed everything. And the dialogue changed our performance improved. And then my last challenge was, okay, great. We have the right leads spending the right amount of money. How do we drive conversion? And that’s when I thought really about AI, how can we take what is already landing and just do a better job of qualifying, closing, shortening, shortening sales cycle. And that was really my objective. You know, in the second half, once we got the org alignment, I think a lot better.

Doug Landis [ 02:16:17 ] * Personally, you know, you know, it’s interesting, Ben is I, so I, I’m a big believer in this whole integration of sales, marketing and customer success, but, but a problem might, uh, might, uh, evolve from, uh, uh, from this, which is like our incentive structure then likely needs to change. If they need to get more consolidated, if they need to get more integrated, if they need to get more aligned, then it begs the question: like, well, then how do we think about incentives? And, and Manisha, it kind of makes me think that you said, like, you know, what if we had it? Oh, we all had it. We all had an SC in our pocket. That’s amazing.

Doug Landis [ 02:16:45 ] * Um, with technology, like what you have all built, how does that change the role of an SC in an organization or even a compensation structure for an SC, if we can use technology like yours to actually, you know, make our whole, our whole, uh, um, process better and easier for the customer. So if you see today, uh, the SC to AE ratio is really one is two, three in almost every org. Unless you’re selling to very large enterprises, then you will have one-to-one, uh, ratio for SCs to AEs, right? So three AEs basically get one shared, uh, one shared SC and they keep on fighting for the time of SCs and because they are subject matter experts right now, even when this, uh, deal is being closed, that’s when the SC is involved, when the deal is closed and then it is handed over to customer service, right?

Manisha Raisinghani [ 02:17:42 ] For a longest of the time, SC is still involved. You can’t give the entire implementation to a delivery team or implementation team because there is so much subject matter expertise that solutions team has. And for deals, which go on for six months to 12 months, there’s a lot of context. So today what happens is this knowledge is spread across multiple tools, right? I mean, as we were discussing consolidation of tools, because there are so many tools. And honestly, I think. In next at least few years, we are not going to see a lot of consolidation of the tools because there are such amazing products which are coming up, which are doing just those five things so well that you don’t want to compromise bringing in and, you know, a legacy player or using features of those incumbents and compromise on productivity or compromise on how best you can actually do a particular task.

Manisha Raisinghani [ 02:18:37 ] So consolidation is definitely needed, but it’s not happening. I think anytime soon, and if consolidation isn’t happening, what Gainsight did, right? Gainsight basically bought all the data into one place, which is required by customer success teams to make the customer successful. Now, a lot of companies have solved for data. You see ThoughtSpot, Gainsight, a lot of companies have solved for data, but not many companies have solved for knowledge and context. Once you solve for knowledge and context, then you’re empowering your sellers. To, you know, being able to answer any question immediately from the customer, instead of saying, ‘I’ll get back to you,’ I’ll get back to’ delays your sales cycle. Yeah, I mean, knowledge and context, I think, is even harder right now, given how much information exists out there.

Doug Landis [ 02:19:27 ] * Rohan, I’m curious, given given your focus on, you know, on sellers, and especially kind of earlier in the process, and also given the fact that you’re a younger company, how does it like, how do you foresee 2025? How do you foresee 2025? In terms of like, big problem that that that exists, whether you’re all going to see whether you’re going to solve it or not, or whether you can help to solve it or not, I mean, I feel like we’re hearing a couple things, consistency, knowledge, context, messaging, noise, y’all, and nooks, when you kind of sit right in the middle of all that. Right, right. I mean, I think like, for Nooks as a company, you know, if we look at our 2025 goals, and, you know, what are our big risks, most of them honestly come from like, there’s a little bit of a product execution risk, but most of it comes from just like pipeline, like, can we scale the pipeline ahead of revenue goals that we want to hit?

Rohan Suri [ 02:20:16 ] *And so that’s a big thing that, you know, I think it’s probably a big focus for most revenue teams, you know, healthy pipeline solves most problems. So I think that’s one thing I think of, I do think like, in general AI that like, not just drives efficiency, but actually that can like, actually generate more overall pipeline for an org is going to be more valuable than just like driving efficiencies. So doing it with like, less dollars. But I think, yeah, I think that’s like one of the big challenges that I think most orgs are going to face over the next year, is how do they keep up with those growth rates? It reminds me of the day when when marketing automation first came out, right, marketing automation came out, I was like, well, now look at all this pipeline we have now, now, now we have to sift through it, and make sure what’s real is actually real and get rid of all the noise.

Doug Landis [ 02:21:07 ] * It’s interesting. I think one of the things that is going to be a problem that needs to be solved, for in 2025, I’m going to throw this out there, is pricing. I think pricing is going to have to be reevaluated. Because the reality is, I as a buyer, and I’m curious to all your thoughts, because you’re all buyers. I’m curious. How do you feel about this? I don’t want to buy licenses anymore. I don’t want to buy licenses for my whole organization. I kind of want to buy outcomes, right versus actual licenses. So I think I think pricing is going to have to be something that we’re all going to evaluate. Maybe it’s something that you’re all are thinking about, from a business perspective.

Doug Landis [ 02:21:41 ] * From from the standpoint of like, how do we actually get more utilization, more adoption of our products, but without actually making pricing as a license per user license, a real barrier. I want to take that. And you said that, you know, as a buyer, I don’t want to buy licenses. I’ll even take it further. As a founder, I don’t want to, I don’t want to sell licenses. I just thought, you know, we’re working on building right now. And my team asked me, why don’t you have an annual plan? And I don’t want to have annual plans. Actually, I want to sell results. I want to sell outcomes. I want to sell work. And I think this is where some of the solutions are going to, not all of them, I can definitely tell you that in terms of the buyers, it’s much, much easier to make a decision.

Omer Gotlieb [ 02:22:24 ] * And, you know, if it’s working, we’re going to pay for it, and we’re going to pay for it a lot. And if it’s not, there’s a lot of risk, again, as a founder, you know; how do you report as many, many, many other risks there. But if I’m going to put up front, my lighthouse is: ‘How do we solve this?’ I’m betting for the customer. I’m betting for that price. I don’t think it’s a good company, but for specific types of companies, I’m all in favor of it as a buyer and as a seller. Juliet, thank you so much for putting this up. Because I know when this was posted, I think Kyle Poyer posted this. I love Kyle; he’s so freaking smart.

Doug Landis [ 02:23:03 ] * But I just think creativity in terms of like, addressing what where our customers are and what they actually need is: we’re gonna have to get a little bit more creative. Yeah, kind of going forward. So I’m interested in your thoughts. Now, let’s kind of shift gears just a little bit in terms of the problems that y’all just identified. Whether that’s, you know, context of knowledge, where, when and how you need it, or that’s consolidation. Hopefully, that happens merely, fingers crossed, because it’s too much. Where does technology play a role in helping us solve for some of these problems? I think ideally, we’re looking for technology to help us consolidate. It’s hard to do, because we don’t know which one to actually, you know, invest in as a particular product.

Doug Landis [ 02:23:45 ] * But like, where does technology fit? And this is kind of a two part question. And do you think people are going to be more comfortable in 2025? Looking at AI first technology to help them solve a problem? Or how do I, you know, or are they gonna be going? How do I leverage what I currently have? And maybe do some AI augmentation? This is that was just a big, ugly question. Sorry. I hit fire myself for my hosting job. Who wants to who wants to start with that? Where does technology play? And is it AI first technology? Or is it or can we leverage what we what we already have? Because there’s already so much out there? Yeah, I think AI-first technologies, of course, I mean, as a founder, I always believe that AI-first technologies are changing the way and disrupting it.

Manisha Raisinghani [ 02:24:38 ] So let’s say if an incumbent or a legacy player can bring in 30% productivity improvement in a particular task, and AFS company, we have seen they’re bringing 60-70% productivity improvement, right? It could be efficacy and productivity both. What I think what is important here is, and how technology is helping us, rather than bringing workflow into AI, like having an AI application, and then you have this chat GPT kind of interface, it works for consumers, but it always doesn’t work for businesses because businesses today are anyways using so many tools on an average any company uses 100 tools right, 100 SaaS applications. So, it’s very important to bring AI into your workflows instead of bringing workflows to AI.

Manisha Raisinghani [ 02:25:27 ] * And if a salesperson or even a you know customer success person they don’t have to go to one more tool to actually solve a problem or do a do a task faster, they’ll be okay to do it even if it’s a new tool; it has to just you know seamlessly fit into the current ecosystem today. You know, it’s interesting. Ben, I’m curious, you know as a as you know founder co-founder CRO leader, you’re constantly getting hit up. I’ve got the question I have for you. Is do you constantly ask yourself, what is this replacing? Because if you already have so much in, if you already have so much right, and you’re trying to, you’re trying to like, okay how do we how do we consolidate?

Doug Landis [ 02:26:08 ] * Is the first question you’re going to ask, is like, what does this replace or or what questions are you going to actually ask when you’re thinking about whether or not technology is the way to solve for the problem? So the first thing I want to understand is what’s the ROI so where’s the what’s the value prop what does it do it’s great what kind of incremental returns am I going to generate and if if I can prove out that the so That’s number one. What is the ROI, in theory? Number two, what is the hassle around integration right? Is it like I’ve got a real sales force to put in HubSpot, I just don’t want to go down that journey right like and and and they’re both amazing companies by the way but I’m just talking about ripping something, ripping the guts out of your organization to put something else in.

Ben Samuels [ 02:26:52 ] It’s a big right ever and it’s a big commitment so anything I could layer on try see results then scale I would be much more willing to move at pace take some risks um because I think you know that commitment around integration and then if it doesn’t work How do you pull it back out? Like, I just can’t stop the business to do so. I think it’s got to be seamless in terms of integration, and I think a lot of AI sort of things are more so than others. Uh, ROI has got to be very very clear, and I think when we come to pricing, I agree with you. I would love to buy things based on um results, so I’m happy to pay a lot more if, if we agree that it outperforms what I think it will do.

Ben Samuels [ 02:27:36 ] * Um, as someone who’s selling, I get that asset all the time; we’re just not at a stage of growth where I can fund that. Um, I hope over time we will do results-based pricing because I’d love to share that outside and I’d be a buyer of That risk on my current product all day long, I just don’t; we just don’t; we just don’t have enough reason. Yeah, yeah, it’s a little challenging when you’re super early. Yeah, I totally, I totally get that. Omer and Rohan, I’m curious: one of the things that he he had mentioned, that Ben had mentioned, was the idea of like um um; you know, how do you actually integrate right? So there’s like well, what am I? How easy is this to implement?

Doug Landis [ 02:28:11 ] * How easy is this to actually truly understand whether or not it can drive value? And given that both your products are very, I mean they’re they’re really easy to use, but there’s an element there of like as a buyer I’m kind of like okay, so is this just smoking mirrors? Is this just a rules engine in the in the back end like how do I know that this isn’t going to completely disrupt my organization as uh as if I’m thinking about leveraging technology to help me solve something my problems? So here’s the thing: two things for that one really. The integration is very easy today, I mean the amount of effort you need today to start a new company is probably 10x less than what it was a year ago, uh including integration.

Omer Gotlieb [ 02:28:51 ] * There’s so much technology that enables you, and by the way, and I think it’s a fair question. I’ve met a lot of CROs and go-to-market. leaders that are concerned of getting something new uh with uh you know they don’t want to jeopardize it now uh but here’s the thing you know I’m old enough to remember the first time the first browser was up or the first iPhone was up and I’m telling you the AI is probably 10x more uh impactful than those kinds of Technologies and companies that are not going to move fast or simply gonna left behind I see the speed of so many companies starting and whether your AI first or not I actually don’t think about AI as a technology I actually think about AI as as an experience enabler uh and I think companies that are not going to move At that pace, are going to fail.

Omer Gotlieb [ 02:29:41 ] * Luckily, the technology does enable us to move really quickly. I’m sure one did amazing things with nukes and AI, actually, you know, brings them even much further, it’s much easier to do it again. Another risk because competition is going to be uh difficult as well, yeah, yeah. Rohan, I feel like your your solution um does tend to land in an area where there’s potential replacement, you know the Ben’s comments of like like how much disruption might this actually create from a from a usability perspective how do you think about that when you when you’re talking to customers because That’s a real question for all of us as buyers, we’re like okay, disruption is a thing, right? It’s a real thing, yeah, you know I, I understand the promise and the potential, but I’m also really worried about risk and disruption.

Rohan Suri [ 02:30:27 ] * Yeah, I mean I think one of the reasons Next has been successful to date, and how we’ve been able to go so fast, is because once you value so like we are able to get teams up and running on Nuxes within days, um, and like usually it’s just like a one-hour setup call, um, and so that means that you can get set up quickly, and then you can also see results quickly, so people start seeing results with Notes within days because we’re. Accelerating those manual tasks that reps are doing today, and we’re making them 5x faster, so essentially you get 5x the amount of output within just a couple of days of using nukes,

Rohan Suri [ 02:31:06 ] um, and to the other pieces like I think people are understandably skeptical of like AI and there’s a lot of like snake oil that like is being sold, and so one of the things that we’ve always led with is like we’re completely free to try; we’re very easy to set up, and because of that like I think you know it’s a much different cell now that you’re saying hey instead of saying hey, we could increase your reps’ productivity, to now like hey, we did that and. Like, look at this data over the last couple of weeks. We’re going to be booking three times as many meetings as they were the prior month earlier and so um, I think that’s like I honestly feel like most companies are going to have to try to figure out emotion, especially AI companies that can show early results because buyers are going to be skeptical um of like, frankly all the claims that are being made.

Rohan Suri [ 02:31:55 ] Everyone claims to like you know use AI to automate this task or automate that task and not all of them work um, and so it’s been a very successful motion for us like you know once we get people to trial those at like 60 to 70 percent. Um, and so you know, but like it it’s hard to do right right there’s a lot of like, you have to you have to nail the change management, you have to nail the reps’ workflow changes, you know. We schedule sessions like we have a whole process built out to do it, and it’s like very key part of our go-to-market motion, and like I think someone was talking about consultative sales, um, I think that’s like a really big piece of sales moving forward is that trial process is going to be a big part of buying decisions.

Doug Landis [ 02:32:37 ] * Yeah, so you bring up something, and Ben brought this up as well, merrily, that I’m really curious your thoughts about which is all about. ROI because, look, I mean, look, everybody says I want to see the ROI, I don’t know if you’re like me, I don’t believe most of it, right. I’m like, ‘and’, truthfully, yeah, it’s Julia, just put posted some some data points here: 49 of orgs expect ROI on AI within one to three years. My belief I want ROI in 90 days; like, I got a cool thing going, I got to make a decision real fast if this isn’t working because I’m placing a bet on it and if it’s not working, let’s get it out, let’s go back, and let’s kind of like get back to the least disruptive path here.

Doug Landis [ 02:33:17 ] * So, I’m curious your thoughts on like as you as a buyer when you’re thinking about ROI on technology and how much. how much do you believe the AI hype especially given it the kind of like the lower levels of adoption I guess thus far I’m just one of your thoughts on that I think I think the ROI conversation is interesting because it’s it’s it’s really interesting because it’s it’s it’s both subjective and objective right so you’ve got a sales team who is selling you the tool they will tell you oh yeah you can get x percent more of this less of that and those all directionally make a lot of sense but I think you know every every organization is different mileage varies and this is why I think as a as a seller you have to get really really in Tune with the intricacies of your buyers’ actual business, and really, what makes them tick.

Marilee Bear [ 02:34:03 ] I just don’t see people do enough discovery to really have like to really get into the details of what matters, and so you know a one-size-fits-all approach around; we see X percentage of this gain, you know it was a great as a teaser to get your foot in the door but you almost have to pull back from that as a seller and say ‘Hey, you know what? This is this is great for all these other companies that we’ve done this for but we really want to understand your business and what would make this a win for you, and it’s some of the objective but it’s also Um, the subject is like selling a tool to my sales team to make them more productive.

Marilee Bear [ 02:34:40 ] It matters a lot what the sales leaders think, the CS leaders, all of the leadership as well as the individuals using the tool every day, and if they are telling me, ‘If you turn this off, it’s going to greatly impact my ability to be productive or it’s going to mean I’m not closing as fast or I’m not retaining our customers like we should.’ Then I’m going to give it a big look and I will, I will be very serious about it around. And I’ve said, ‘Hey, what do you think about this tool?’ And people have said, ‘I don’t know, it’s okay; we haven’t really, you know, done Much with it, I guess it’s fine; it’s just it is-we don’t have time; we don’t have time for it; we don’t have the time, more money for it, so it really does matter, you know.

Marilee Bear [ 02:35:21 ] * Both, um, you know, on the objective piece but also, more so, on what people have to say about it internally, yeah. I love that. So, unfortunately, it’s one that I was talking to a company this morning, an early-stage company, and one of the gaps that they were having is like, okay, getting reps on board; the managers love it; getting the reps on board is like a total slog, so I’m like, you got to figure out a faster, faster way to wow for your for the reps, so that they will, to your point, take that. Up to leadership, and be like, ‘Okay, this is actually you know. It’s changing the way in which I’m able to do my job, and it’s having a meaningful impact. That’s the stuff you’re going to pay attention to.

Doug Landis [ 02:35:58 ] I’m curious as we think-look, this year has been all about hyper-focused on efficiency and profitability, right? We came out of some really rough times where it was like, ‘Okay, we got to make some cuts. We’re spending too much; you know, cash was harder to uh to to get um for a lot of us.’ And so it begs the question: though, if we think about 2025-first of all, do y’all think that we’re going to continue to focus on you know, on profitability and efficiency? and if so what tools or or or areas of technology you know that you’re going to be able to use to

Doug Landis [ 02:36:32 ] * to likely need to be replaced altogether or removed in in 2025 because i think technology is going to play a big role continue to play a big role and go to market for next year but i i don’t think it’s we’re not we’re not in this place where we’re just going to say yes to everything and absolutely absorb everything we need to we need to be smart about the decisions that we make in terms of what we replace or what we remove altogether because we got to be we got to be smart about our efficiency and profitability But there’s a lot of twists, I’m happy to jump in, please. Yeah, no, I think you can see from markets and everything else, I think growth is going to be a priority, but it’s not going to be growth at all costs again, like yes when there was easy money.

Ben Samuels [ 02:37:14 ] I think it’s going to be thinking about strategies you can implement that aren’t linear but can scale without incremental costs. So for example, I think growth is going to be 20 therefore I need to grow the pipeline therefore I’m going to hire 10 BDRs. I mean that’s a very linear approach, right? And and I think we’re no one can afford that so I think you’re going to have to replace some of those BDRs. With technology that can help you scale by just buying whether it’s a license, I know you’re pushing back on licenses but whether it’s a license or something else, but it says we can grow 20 if we implement this and I don’t need to hire 10 BDRs.

Ben Samuels [ 02:37:47 ] * And I think technology is moving so quickly, particularly around AI that the entry-level jobs and the most basic human tasks can be replaced. The good news is if you can get the tech right, your pipeline’s better, it’s more qualified-you’re going to need more AEs who are closing at higher rates, more velocity all those things, and they’re going to be much happier. But I think your entry-level jobs um are going to migrate up, but they’re not going to be here. Here’s a list of people who called in overnight or left their emails-go call them back and just ask these five questions and hand them off. I just don’t think that’s necessary anymore, of course we i there’s…

Doug Landis [ 02:38:27 ] * But this is there’s such a dichotomy right because AI-this in this last year hasn’t really fully proven that it can that you can use it to completely replace roles and functions or fully proven that it’s going to generate you know the the kind of pipeline that we need in order to hit these revenue targets, so it’s there’s it’s it’s a little bit of a it’s a little bit of a catch 22 right because it’s like i need us we need to be more efficient so let’s try and use technology but technology hasn’t fully approved that i can it’s actually going to drive the efficiency unless i’m using nooks of course um and then so therefore what do i if you like what do i do

Doug Landis [ 02:39:02 ] * do i keep testing tech do i keep do i add bodies and tech i don’t know it’s an it’s an interesting i’m just curious how y’all are thinking about this because i don’t think there’s an easy answer but i do think i do think tech has moved so i’ll just finish on this i do think tech has moved in the ability to catch so i think what Nooks is doing if I understood correctly is generating new pipeline. So what happens when that pipeline comes to your website? What we’re doing at one, for example, is we have you know photoreal face, voice brains at your best AI rep, your best sales 24/ 7 able to pick up traffic, have a real-life conversation-it’s not a chatbot, all right, no typing involved.

Ben Samuels [ 02:39:40 ] It’s like you and I having a conversation. Now, you would have a conversation with the AI, and they could qualify you. So the example I’ll give is when I was at WeWork, we spent all these marketing dollars. 500, 000 people hit our website a month, right? Two percent left their information. Sounds great, thousand leads fucking killing it. What about the 590,490, 000 people who didn’t leave? We didn’t know why we know where they spent time but no one was there to I could never serve up enough salespeople, physical salespeople, to answer to, to be there. The AI does that, I think. Your conversion to the roof, they qualify now, your pipeline is way better now, your reps are closing so I think yeah, I mean assuming assuming you’re getting enough people to your website, you’re getting enough inbound.

Doug Landis [ 02:40:25 ] I totally agree, I mean in fact Omer and I had this conversation and it’s like all right well you gotta have it, you gotta be in a business. Where you can get enough exposure where enough people are going to want to come to your website so you can start that level of engagement right, so a little tiny startup maybe you don’t get it. Um, your game site makes a ton of sense; you got to have that level because now I can get rid of a whole you know the whole step function of folks in terms of what they were doing given the the velocity of people going to the website. Yeah, from Ford I do think inbound, you know, capturing inbound demand is is one of the better uses, I agree, I totally agree; it is, it is a little bit more straightforward right?

Doug Landis [ 02:41:03 ] I mean if someone comes to your website and you Want to send an email saying ‘hey, come back like that’s a pretty straightforward email, yep I mean similarly Rohan a warm outbound is becoming I mean it is also another I would say low-hanging fruit use case although I think people are starting to kind of see the forest to the trees and realize like warm outbound how much of that is like an AI/AI technology writing on your behalf and does it really feel real and personalized etc but I also think there’s another one, what are the use cases if you think about go-to-market in 2025. Across the board, not just sales, but sales, marketing, and CS-what other use cases are kind of low-hanging fruit where there’s potential to actually use technology to maintain your focus on efficiency and profitability?

Manisha Raisinghani [ 02:41:45 ] * I think Manisha might say something about SEs. Yeah, yeah, totally! As you know, Omer and Ben were also saying that there are so many leads coming in, and you are you know 98 percent of your leads are running away, but also marketing team has been so active in spreading information about the product that earlier the kind of technical expertise sales people used to have was maybe level one and level two, but now level one, level two job is already done by, you know, emails, case studies, webinars there’s so Much is out there about any product that sales people now need to know, dig deep into level three conversations directly even on the first call they need to dig into level three conversations and they need to really understand the technical details of your product, you really have to be amazing at consultative selling from day one from the first discovery call.

Doug Landis [ 02:42:46 ] * You know even to ask the right questions on discovery call is so crucial because your platform is solving 100 pain points. What are these? What are the three pain points this customer might have? Let’s say you’re selling to Nike, what were the discovery questions? You had asked Adidas, you know those kind of details surfacing these objections, these questions, giving them access to easy information, even from sales enablement tools where there are thousands of decks, you know lying somewhere and you don’t know how to find that one slide amongst those thousands, thousand decks is going to be really important because now it’s all about going deep into the technical details, product details, platform understanding, and uh being consultative from day one.

Doug Landis [ 02:43:37 ] Man, there’s so many assumptions there though right, because if you even if you give me all the technical chops, technical insight At my fingertips as I’m talking to Nike or Adidas, I need to understand it right. And I think that’s an interesting element: how do I? How do you i mean I can give you all the information and you can regurgitate it just like we do on our school tests, which is terrible. But like, I want to know that you truly understand it and I think that’s an interesting element. And I think that’s it, um, merrily; I’m curious. From your perspective, especially in the world of customer success, critically important and

Doug Landis [ 02:44:10 ] * everybody always talks about, like, the customers are the most important element to our entire business um, where where does technology play where are some of the low-hanging fruit use cases especially on the customer success side because i feel like there’s a ton we could gain on that on that side of the business yeah you’re absolutely right i mean you know when you just think about a csp customer success platform it relies a ton on manual data entry for a csm to go in and whether it’s gainsight or tatango or any other csp to go in and actually manually input i had this meeting with the customer you know it was a green meeting or it was yellow or red and it really is very very objective or very subjective rather for the csm to input that information Um, you know it just requires a lot of like you know daily entry which nobody loves.

Marilee Bear [ 02:44:59 ] Nobody loves to update their CSP. Nobody ever loved updating their Salesforce or HubSpot either. So where I see the low-hanging fruit and what we’re already doing at Gainsight which is super exciting is around this um acquisition we made back in July of Staircase AI that basically ingests all of the different interactions between a vendor or a partner and their end customer so it’s Zoom transcripts, it’s Slacks, it’s emails, all of that support tickets and takes it and is able to assign a sentiment score and also to be able to really be able To tell where the customer sits in terms of their overall, uh, sentiment for your organization is hugely helpful. I know for

Marilee Bear [ 02:45:43 ] * me as I started at Gainsight about two months ago, me coming up to speed on you know our different customers and where they are in terms of their renewals process or you know just overall interactions with us over the past, you know, time period 60-90 days was super, super helpful for me to be able to see that really quickly. So I think about like we have our legacy customer success platform that is great for actionability for CSMs to go in and actually run a workflow process but the Staircase piece is really Tuned in for um, executives who are looking for you know a bird’s eye view on their overall customers as well as the team effort, um, you know that’s that’s needed in order to support a customer. I um, I love that!

Doug Landis [ 02:46:28 ] I wish, can I just make some suggestions here for Gainsight? This is for you paying attention. Why isn’t somebody just building the easiest white space analysis tool on the planet and say, ‘Go talk to them about these three products because you know what they’ve like all the Zoom conversations, the partnership conversations, you can see all like, all product usage, and everything but like oh yeah they’re still…’ Mean gainsight, y’all sell a lot of products. When I was at Salesforce, it’s like we sold so many products, I wouldn’t know which ones they’re not actually which ones are the best fit? Right, yeah, who’s the best fit to go with? What’s that best fit product that I should go talk to you about? So sorry, go ahead.

Marilee Bear [ 02:47:04 ] * I’ve been using something better than the the spreadsheet or Google Sheet, but here’s the thing, dog, and I want to tie this in with what Marilyn said into a go-to-market strategy as well. Remember, a year and a half ago, two years ago when ChatGPT was first released? I remember the first time I actually played with it; I was blown away, I was amazed. That is an amazing experience. What Marilyn described right now is what Gainsight is actually doing in the product to create that level of experience. My question is, what are we doing in a go-to-market process? If you ever bought a Tesla, you know how easy it is to buy a Tesla-you just click on a button, you buy it, and you don’t need to go to a dealership.

Omer Gotlieb [ 02:47:47 ] You know I think that we have an opportunity to think about what we do in our go-to-market to try and recreate that kind of experience for our buyers. Now, it’s going to be difficult because Gainsight’s go-to-market motion could be different than Nox, they might be selling you know Low-touch height it is difficult, but at the end of the day, there’s a buyer, there, and I can guarantee to you that if the buyer in one or two years is going to have a choice between selecting a company that was focused more on making their sales team efficient versus selecting a company that made their entire go-to-market engagement amazing, because that’s what it’s going to do, these will be yeah companies.

Omer Gotlieb [ 02:48:27 ] * So I think what I need to think about AI is not necessarily about a tool here or tool nox there or a technology but your product team go and ask your product team; they understand that, they understand that AI adds a layer of experience. We can actually add that layer of wow to our buyers as well, and I think if we’ll provide an amazing buying experience, that’s going to be a win-win for us and for them as well. That’s what really excites me in AI, well, and it kind of goes back to one of the original things I said before, which is: this-how do we ensure that the entire team is much more has much more context and insight into every interaction that’s happening with a buyer?

Doug Landis [ 02:49:09 ] * Right, so they first go to their website or someone does some outreach, and then as a result of that outreach, I go to the website, or maybe then I am on I’m on a call with an AE, and you know Manisha, they’re Using your platform to make sure they have all the right technical information and insight, like I want all of that information easily shared and identified within my CRM. It kind of begs the question: are we going to have a product team that’s going to be old school? This is a challenge for Salesforce, HubSpot – but the old-school system of record CRM gonna go away because, to be totally honest, to be frank with you, I, as an ex-Salesforcer, love Salesforce the company, but the product is such a pain in the butt.

Doug Landis [ 02:49:48 ] I literally, it’s so manual and it just boggles my mind how manual it is right now, given all this technology. I go to Chat GPT, I go to Claude, I go, I go Gemini, and I pull all this information that I like, and I put it in a spreadsheet. Then, I load it into my CSV loader and load it into Salesforce. And here we’re talking about all this great technology. But I still think fundamentally by 2025, if we haven’t solved for these systems of records not shifting to maybe a system of engagement, Omar, to your point, like it’s a system of engagement where we’re constantly wowing our customers because they have everything that I need them to have and I don’t have to answer the same question 18 times.

Doug Landis [ 02:50:26 ] * Then, we might, we might be on to something. I don’t know, just a thought. I think it’s going to be this entire transition process though, you know, human behavior shifted in one month with ChatGPT. I don’t think we can expect this kind of behavior change in GTM processes and this this just happens in a decade, right? It can’t keep on happening every day. I think it will be, we’ll go through this transitioning process of how sales is done how customer success is done so today let’s say we help companies companies fill RFPs and security questionnaires in you know few minutes instead of spending hours on it now what we see is after two years there are no… they’re not going to.

Manisha Raisinghani [ 02:51:11 ] * Be any security questionnaires or RFPs, right there will be buyer bought, there will be seller bought, they will be talking to each other around all the security-related product-related information and humans will only be involved maybe for you know negotiations but mainly for relationship building because ultimately it’s people on both sides right. And then probably signing the contract which of course DocuSign will do it automatically so I think it’s going to take time for us to go through this process, uh it will be very, very optimistic to say that we are going to see that change in 2025, I mean who knows. Who knows what’s gonna happen, um, where I’m curious so given so, where are the risks in 2025? Where are the biggest risks to go to market in 2025?

Omer Gotlieb [ 02:52:41 ] * We’re gonna each one of us is going to have a lot of competition uh different yeah a lot of competition and how do we rise above the noise? And I think the second one, as Ron said, is how do we create a pipeline uh because everybody it’s much easier for everybody else right now because we’re going to have a lot of competition to use all the ammunition that only big companies or successful companies were able to use before. So I think that that combination of a lot of competition and so much noise. and garbage out there uh that’s the main risk that we have interesting so i’m curious about that here’s a little twist because it’s actually it was a question that julia threw out which is what do you think the phone is going to come back because it’s so hard to decipher between what you read and all the noise you’re getting from email and linkedin messages and all that kind of stuff so i think

Doug Landis [ 02:53:28 ] * we’re going to start having back to manisha’s kind of point which is like we’re going to always is are we are we going to go back old school and i want face-to-face meetings with people i’m buying from i think so i last week i hosted an off-site with my team and our sdr leader talked about how like what is helping the sdr team stand out now is actually taking it back to the old school with a good old-fashioned phone call people are surprised when you when they’ve used that as a as a uh a tool and i think it’s going to be a combination of of it all you know

Marilee Bear [ 02:53:59 ] * like it takes how many touch points to reach someone 10 plus and i think 10 plus that could be across all those different you know those different mediums so um i i’m all for it so watch watch your uh phones everybody that’s true it’s a good pattern interrupt too being at notes we have a lot of data on this and like i think Over the last year, like average pipeline source contribution from the phone went up on our customer base, like 50 to 70 percent um, which is just seeing an increase in using it just because like you need a human behind on the you know on the phone um, just illegal to fully automate that portion and so what you’re seeing is like

Rohan Suri [ 02:54:40 ] * you know it’s one of those channels that just isn’t as clogged up and crowded as some of the other channels were like the email, I mean, to Omar was saying, you know the cost of sending an email now the personalized email has just slowly gone to zero and so it’s going to be a real challenge to stand out in the Inbox, um, so, so, yeah, yeah, so so Ben, this is an interesting question, um, sorry I didn’t mean to cut you off, there, Rohan, um, interesting question for you is, what about deep fakes? So, if we’re going to go back to the phone, if we’re going to go, if we want to, if we want to have a a personal interaction, um, how is that like, I mean, I don’t know if I want to talk to uh this technology or if I actually want to talk to you, and so you being in that, you know,

Doug Landis [ 02:55:28 ] * in fact, that one mind is actually in the the crosshairs of that comment, um, I’m super curious about your thoughts on, especially on deep fakes because I think if there’s a couple you have a couple bad experiences. You’re, you’re, now you’re like done shy right? So now I want to meet someone face-to-face, especially if it’s a big decision. But I, but I, think it’s all about choice, right? And it’s all about giving the the meeting the customer where they are when they’re ready to buy and then letting letting them choose how they want to be served. So for example, when you go to a website, your expectation is not that you’re going to speak to someone; you’re on the website to find information.

Ben Samuels [ 02:56:02 ] * Now old-school websites were like Google search, click a lot of links, hamburger menus, drop-downs – whatever I think what Perplexity has done is reshaped how, what, your expectations Are when you do a search, get the answers and I think if you spent any time with We call her Mindy, the person on our website, the AI on our website, you just get to the answers right, you don’t have to click around, you don’t have to fumble around. Now, if you wanted to, you could pick up the phone and someone will call you. If you wanted to, you could probably find a chat bot on most websites, I think. When you give customers or prospective clients the choice to say, ‘Do you want all the answers right now, speaking to an AI in a very natural conversation?’ I think you’re going to find most people will say yes because I want to get quickly, I haven’t done.

Ben Samuels [ 02:56:46 ] * My makeup, I just came out of the shower, I’m in my underwear, the kids are screaming, the dogs running around like no problem, the AI doesn’t give a shit, and by the way, I’m going to pause you because Amazon’s at the door. I’m here as long as you want, take whatever time, yeah. And if you need to make a bathroom break on the way back to speak to me, don’t worry, I’m here. And I think that’s a really good buying experience now when you’re ready to move on, I’m going to call you. Someone’s going to call you. We’re going to have lunch. We’re going to go play golf. Whatever that motion is, I’m not saying eliminate it, but I’m saying and of those 500, 000 visitors. My website, I think there’s room to engage a lot more of them in a thoughtful way, yeah that’s interesting, I mean you, I don’t think we’re

Doug Landis [ 02:57:48 ] * going to spend an hour or two on that question but yeah that’s something that I’m glad we’re going to be talking about, which is it’s crazy. This is like you’re able to filter out all the noise. And I think, Ben, in your case, I get to have a pseudo-conversation with someone and kind of have some fun with it before I’m ready to actually have a real conversation. And then, of course, once I become a customer, merely it’s just going to make me feel all warm and happy. It’s interesting how, Julian. It’s a really funny anecdote. It’s incredible when I’m looking through the transcripts how honest and direct people are with the AI. If you and I are on a conversation and you’re like, so, can we move forward?

Ben Samuels [ 02:58:26 ] * I don’t feel badly saying no to you because we’ve engaged. You’re a nice guy. Sure, let me take it away. Why don’t we follow up in a month? What I’m really saying is there’s no chance I’m ever buying for you. You can say, I’m forecasting this. This is a December close. I feel really good. The AI is, this sucks. You’re ugly. I’m not buying from you. I’m never doing that. They are so direct. It’s unreal. And so you know what you’re getting in that case. I’ll tell you, there’s no hurt feelings either. Hey, Ben, you should tell Amanda. Y’all need to post. Not what people are actually saying, but take a book out of Gong’s playbook and be like, hey, here’s the things that people are more comfortable saying to an AI person versus a real person.

Doug Landis [ 02:59:07 ] * Have some fun with that. Amanda, I know you’re listening. Julia, are we at time? I just have a feeling you’re just going to pull the rug out from underneath all of us. I want to be mindful of that. Thank you so much, Doug. Such an amazing panel. Thank you, everyone. The best comment about the panel. This is effing amazing. So CXOs, Doug, we heard all the predictions from all of our panelists, but when it comes to you, give us a wildcard prediction for next year. Oh, man. The wildcard prediction for next year is cash is going to be way more readily available. And so everyone’s going to start having fun again. That’s my prediction. That’s my prediction for next year. Because I tell you what, this last year was a little brutal.

Rohan Suri [ 02:59:58 ] * Are you thinking interest rates are going to go lower? I mean, I just feel like I don’t know if it’s necessarily interest rates. I think it’s a combination of that plus the fact that people are going to feel more comfortable getting rid of their cash or making investments and taking some risks. I think people are really, really, really, really risk averse the last 12, 18 months. And people are going to now start taking more risks. And I think it’s just going to open the doors for more possibilities. Super hopeful. That’s my take. Okay. Thank you so much again. We are transitioning to one of the most exciting parts of the Summit, seeing the tech. GangSide. Hello. Alla Lynch, welcome. Nice to meet you. I’m thrilled to be here. Amazing.