The AI-Powered CMO

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Julia Nimchinski: Welcome back to AI. Practice. Session, diamond grade marketing, 2025.

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Julia Nimchinski: Marketing in the age of AI has millions of dimensions, but for some reason in our industry we tend to just overly simplify it. We find it true. Sangra

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Sangram Vajre: Well, what’s what’s interesting is with AI. Everybody is starting to think about as

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Sangram Vajre: something that can happen on the side and something maybe tangentially important. But I think in the last 3 months, Julie, I think everybody’s realizing who’s spending enough time on it that it’s not just to create a notebook or a comment section. It’s not just to create your Linkedin post. It’s not just to create your email copy from a blog transcript from a podcast or interview, it actually can literally

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Sangram Vajre: give you an incredible dimension of support that you typically wouldn’t get it. For example.

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Sangram Vajre: some, you know I’ve been. I spend probably 2 HA day on on AI, because I’m becoming a student of it, and you know quite frankly, more time than I probably want to. But I think we’re in this learning phase. So everybody’s doing this. And I’m asking AI to now

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Sangram Vajre: be an analyst. And here’s the problem and go do deep research on this topic, and then give me some insights on it. And I’m recognizing the level of thing. And the second thing I’m creating another prompt and asking to hey, become a act as a virtual assistant

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Sangram Vajre: and do Xyz things. So now I’m actually having multiple different conversations with almost different individuals or AI assisted individuals, if you will, and getting different sets of outcome. And that is a very different from what. 3 months ago most people were even thinking about AI

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Julia Nimchinski: This is great. I know that you’re going big on the business of marketing

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Sangram Vajre: Yeah.

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Julia Nimchinski: Share this idea frame this thinking, what’s wrong with marketing? Because this whole day is going to be divided to like into 10 sessions, where we will be delving in into various aspects. But I know that you’re going one layer up and challenging us to follow

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Sangram Vajre: Yeah. And Julia congrats to you and the team. I don’t know how you all put all these great events together, so I look forward to hearing and learning all along in the process. So for me, the big framing for this one is really the 3 things that are changing. I think everybody needs to just take a moment, and before you just start typing or be distracted, just get a moment to just settle in on this one the way people are buying, selling, and developing or building products is changing like, those are the 3 main areas. So the way people are buying, how is that changing

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Sangram Vajre: number one. And you’ll see a lot of research from us around this idea of rise of services as a software. I think we touched on it many weeks ago when we chatted Julia. And I’m seeing this so fast right now, where the idea of somebody paying $100,000 for a solution, and then $200,000 for individuals to figure out how to use it, and then 100,000 for services, and then another, 100,000 for implementing and ads, or whatever you’re doing with it, you’re at a half a million dollar debt.

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Sangram Vajre: and then you are in a multi-year contract. So this idea of a hundred $1,000 solution that might may or may not give you solution when the change in AI is so fast that another product can maybe do that at a faster and better speed than what you’re looking for is going to undercut all these software companies in a big way, unless they became a services company. Which is what the point is to what is it? What is the solution your customer needs? So the agencies, the fractionals, that is just gonna

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Sangram Vajre: get out of crazy. I have like this. There’s several agencies that literally went from 0 to 50 million at a record speed, purely because they are tapping into it. So that’s the way people are buying is changing rapidly. And we, as marketers, need to think through that number 2, the way people are selling is is different, and it’s changing big time.

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Sangram Vajre: We all had Sdrs and Bdrs and all of it. The whole process made sense. When we have when we are going after a large stam, and we are thinking through a lots of different personas that you want to go after, and then it becomes a funnel. You’re like, how many can we get at bats, and how many we can convert that? All makes sense. Now, in the age of AI,

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Sangram Vajre: if you send out a spammy email which more and more spam is actually coming out because AI is automating it. And people are using it to just oh, I can now send it 10,000 times. That is gonna really make it hard. It’s gonna really

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Sangram Vajre: throw off your brand and what you’re trying to do, and some businesses are going to get red flagged in the process, and people are just not recognizing. So the way people are buying, exchanging. So the Sdr bug, that has been in our Gtm. For the last 10 years is literally getting eradicated. It has nothing to do with individuals. It is everything to do with that function that has been used. So that function is forever gone.

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Sangram Vajre: and number 3, the way people are building is different. So I believe AI, prompt is the new interface

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Sangram Vajre: meaning. Until this point we have been thinking about. Well, if I need to get a report on what’s happening in this segment, or what’s happening with this pipeline, or how Chuck is doing, and how Samantha is doing, I would be relying on a whole bunch of things, and then, even if I get, and I would be logging into a Crm. Then I might log into this, or maybe I ask somebody, maybe a slack, and then I wait, and then the data is all over the place. You have no idea

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Sangram Vajre: AI doesn’t care about your silos.

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Sangram Vajre: AI would literally, if you ask, you should never have to as an executive in the future, coming up, care about what technology you’re using, you should be able to prompt them and say, Hey, I need to know what our forecasts look like for the next quarter, and I need to know where reps are, and you should be able to. Just every company is going to have their own. Llm. So you should be able to drop that information in. And AI doesn’t care about

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Sangram Vajre: marketing sales. Cs. All these functions that we humans have created, it’s going to just look at it and say, Well, this is what it looks like. And now you have your information at fingertips which changes pretty much the need for a lot of these siloed departments and the reporting around it. So those are the big shifts on buying, selling, and building, Julie. I’m curious what you think of that

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Julia Nimchinski: Yeah, I totally agree with you. And in alignment with the tactical disruption. I’m really anticipating that.

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Julia Nimchinski: you know, bots buying from a bot experience, because obviously, it’s gonna be regulated. But I’m curious. You’re thinking, sing from on the AI plus Gtm leadership side of things.

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Julia Nimchinski: How do leaders actually use it. We have a lot of Cmos vps of marketing attending this one. And you know it’s quite obvious. How do you prompt your blog post, or you know, social media, be it

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Julia Nimchinski: have you seen any really solid use cases for leaders?

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Sangram Vajre: Well, I’m I’m seeing like, I feel like copyai, like, you know. I think you have seen them. Kyle does a great job of using his own software to talk about it across the wall. I love Gainsight, which I know one of the folks that are supporting. We’ve done a lot of research with them. They do a great job on the customer success side, because guess what the pain is at the Cs level when you don’t have the right customers, and the business is getting impacted. We see them

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Sangram Vajre: doing a lot of really really incredible things on that one, especially with the retention and expansion which literally should be on every Cmo’s mind. Here is a bigger challenge that I think the Cmos and executives need to think about.

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Sangram Vajre: 1st and foremost, the execution, the expectation on execution on every Cmo. Is going to be

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Sangram Vajre: way higher than it has ever been. For example, if you are in an Abm. Space. Let’s just say, and you need to create a battle cards for all of these different competitors. What works, what doesn’t work for them? It is not. Oh, give me 2 weeks, and then I’ll come in and go through 8 levels of approvals. You should be able to train an Llm. To look for the right kind of conversations and help you get it in an hour

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Sangram Vajre: in an hour, right, Max, by editing it and looking at it, and maybe adjusting a little bit and asking it. That’s the speed of execution that is going to be expected from it. If you want to launch a campaign that does XY. And Z. Things, and if the product is there, and you came up with the offer in the board meeting, you expect to launch that by next day in a big way. So the the speed of execution that the Cmos and Executives are going to be asking or asked to to present is going to be really, really high.

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Sangram Vajre: The question that I have for everyone that need to think through is, how much more time are you spending on strategy

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Sangram Vajre: that is going to be the hardest thing to figure out in this execution, because we would be have this innate ability. Oh, let me just go and execute on it, because we can start executing, and people are going to get good and good and better at this every day.

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Sangram Vajre: But are you spending enough time on strategy, because the more important thing right now people don’t need a single source of truth if you will, because AI should take care of the next 3 to 6 months. Every company should have their own Llm. And they should be able to have a single source of truth. You shouldn’t really have any. If you have, you got a bigger problem, like as an organization, you should just have that in place. Your bigger challenge is, do you have a single source of truth for your strategy.

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Sangram Vajre: Why, you’re going after what you’re going after. Where are you actually going to grow? The most because you should be able to get all the data very quickly. Is there enough, Tam? There? Is there enough market, is there the problem acute enough? What has happened in the last 3 years? All these questions that we debate are not needed anymore. The question debate is, should we go after that market?

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Sangram Vajre: And what if we don’t go after that market. Who? What would happen? Because everybody’s creating products faster. I use an app called, you know. I’m not going to say the name of it just to just to protect the identity of some of these things. But I use an app for for better emails that automatically does a few things for me. And then 2 weeks ago, I saw an app, Julia that

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Sangram Vajre: that literally talked about. Oh, we can do automated responses to your emails and get it in a draft format available for you. So looking at my email, looking at my Crm, looking at my past conversation, it can create a draft email for me, I’m like, Oh, that’s cool. So I signed up for that service, and a week later my old service said, Hey, we do that, too. So this other company had raised 30 million dollars to do that automated draft email thing. But this other

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Sangram Vajre: solution that I was using just made it available for free with the existing service they had. So they just disrupted an entire product line and a business in a matter of weeks.

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Sangram Vajre: So this change is happening so fast. So, as a result of this, I think most of us should be spending more time. If you’re a Cm. Or an executive, you should be spending more time on asking the right questions and spending more time on the strategy with all this leverage that you’re going to have

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Julia Nimchinski: Lingram, you play the game. What are your thoughts on defensibility and distribution? I’m just curious to this point.

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Sangram Vajre: On, on, just product in general.

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Julia Nimchinski: Yes, because I I know that you’re big on distribution marketing, distribution for folks listening to this. Obviously, it’s how you promote the product, how you expand, how you grow, all that all channels, and defensibility is really tough.

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Julia Nimchinski: considering AI, and and the pace of innovation. Yeah, what’s your thinking here?

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Sangram Vajre: I think product is no longer your greatest moat. It used to be until AI came up. People can build products. In 2 days. I can build a product which is scary to even start off and think about right like. So I can go and build a product or like that, that we probably had a billion dollar valuation in the past. Each one of us can build a product like that over a weekend. Now, there is literally that much

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Sangram Vajre: horsepower available for each people may not, may not be spending as much time in it, and maybe on the sidelines. You can do that, you literally, can I literally have multiple, different AI prompt solution from perplexity to chat, gpt, and and testing it all across the board. And I’m seeing what gives me deep research to actually building a product, to see what it can do for me. And then you go into Agentic AI, and that changes the game completely. So

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Sangram Vajre: all of this is happening right now in front of us. So product was a moat long time ago from an AI perspective. It’s no longer the moat. I still remember

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Sangram Vajre: I mean Hubspot. Whoever was one of the 1st investors in my last company terminus. When I started with Brian and Urmesh, they had the right idea a long time ago around this idea of building community. That will be the moat. And that’s what they said. Our moat is our community for some, and therefore their distribution has always been gigantic, and they always had it. It’s not like nobody else can.

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Sangram Vajre: Our Crm. Didn’t exist before Hubspot, but the mode they created around was literally the way they they stayed where they are right now. Right? They’re doing phenomenal. Their Nrr is phenomenal.

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Sangram Vajre: You think about Snowflake is really really interesting. I still remember, like very early days, Snowflake, when they didn’t have. They were the 1st one. I think they had the sales assisted Plg. Where they would call in, and they would ask my last company, CTO, hey, you know, do you want to use Snowflake? He’s like, no, I’m on Amazon. Why would I use Snowflake? Who are you? You’re Snowflake. That doesn’t even make any sense. He’s like. No, no, I’m a salesperson, but I don’t want you to buy anything from me.

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Sangram Vajre: you to use it. And they kept nagging and like, Oh, they’re going to give us all this space. He’s like, Okay, fine, I’ll test it. And they tested it. And then we thought, Oh, this is faster, better, and all of that stuff. And so we moved from Amazon to to Snowflake back in the day, and they the salesperson. Then they started to make money, because then we started to use a lot lot more money. So the distribution and the sales process they disrupted before this idea of Sdr. Ae. And

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Sangram Vajre: commissions. They didn’t do that. They actually land and expand. That was their whole go to market motion. So I believe

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Sangram Vajre: every single organization has to think about partnerships as one of the greatest moat that they can have product is not a moat. Marketing is not going to be a moat as much as you want to like it, but marketers are in the driving seat to create partnerships that can create the greatest amount of moat. If you’re embedded with other products. If you’re embedded with other services, you’re embedded because nobody’s gonna AI prompt is the new interface. So nobody’s gonna care about your

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Sangram Vajre: your little widget in a way as much as we all love it. They’re going to create about, outcome the services. And so you have to get out of your own way and say, who do I need to associate and be with in order to create that direct line where the customer can get what they want. And your product actually is part of the solution, not the solution, but part of the solution

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Julia Nimchinski: Definitely. What are your thoughts on network effects? Syndrome

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Sangram Vajre: What! What have you been seeing

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Julia Nimchinski: I mean the obvious, you know. Nfx content and all of the old trends, Facebook, Bot, Whatsapp, etc. Etc. But

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Julia Nimchinski: speaking to the point of the moat. And the growth and pace of it. How do you see? Generally network effects being created, you know, in b 2 b, and we have a lot of communities. And I know that you’re distinguishing always like when you’re building a company. Every company. Your point should have community.

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Julia Nimchinski: and preferably, probably with a different name.

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Julia Nimchinski: So curious to hear your thoughts here, how to expand, how to grow, and how to essentially create a network

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Sangram Vajre: I mean, it’s more important than anything else. Right now. We look at every single organization without AI. They needed a community. So we start thinking about Hubspot, needing inbound or salesforce, were creating dreamforce and gainsight, creating pulse. All of this happened because we all understood that people want to. People want to rally behind a problem, not a product.

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Sangram Vajre: So that has always been a psychological shift for category leaders understood that from the very beginning terminus, we created flip my funnel. We didn’t create another product line. So this has been there for the last few decades. People understood that every humans in general want to go behind behind a problem that’s getting solved like, right now, we’re all trying to solve the AI problem together. Everybody’s in this together all of a sudden. It’s not a good comparison. But the most comparable thing was Covid.

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Sangram Vajre: Everybody in the world experienced the same thing at the same time, and it didn’t matter how rich, poor, or what part of the world you were in, you were experiencing the same exact emotion. It never really happened in the history of mankind.

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Sangram Vajre: The same thing is happening even with Internet. It didn’t happen all of a sudden, everywhere in the world, but with AI, somebody right now in every part of the world is probably using an AI to do something which is incredible because of the power that everybody now has and access that everybody has. So this seismic shift that’s happening at a global level is going to give a network effect. So if you can tap into building communities

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Sangram Vajre: around the problems you’re going to solve is gonna work really? Well, now, here is a big, interesting thing that I’m seeing a lot is, people are creating

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Sangram Vajre: communities. But those communities are too broad.

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Sangram Vajre: and that’s when it starts becoming a diminishing return. People, if you’re a graphic designer or you love that you should be creating a very specific. You don’t need to create a marketing community at all. You need to create a design community, and you need to go niche down as much as possible, because that’s really where you’ll find your people. So in this, because you get to do this things faster and better quickly. We are. Gonna most of us are losing track of the fact that we need to be so

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Sangram Vajre: tight with who we are going after, and what message resonates with them and keep the value. The richest really are in the niches on those things, and people are, and when you just try to do it for all I think that’s when you lose your competitive advantage. Your messaging, your positioning, and the hardest thing is, if you don’t position yourself.

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Sangram Vajre: somebody else will position you

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Julia Nimchinski: Hmm.

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Sangram Vajre: That’s the part. A lot of times people forget they. We try to be everything for everyone, which means we end up being knowing. But the worst part of it that nobody really talks much about is that if you don’t position your business as some as behind a certain problem, or with a point of view.

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Sangram Vajre: you’ll be in the sea of sameness and lose a position, and people would start positioning you because everyone has something in their mind about an individual a brand. We already have made thoughts. So you need to over amplify your positioning in the marketplace and in the AI world.

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Sangram Vajre: There’s always going to be somebody who’s going to come with a better, faster, cheaper product you don’t like. That’s no longer a discussion point discussion point is, do you have the best distribution and network effect is one of those ways to think about. It.

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Julia Nimchinski: Singram. You’ve been really consistent with positioning and big on this point. Go for years and years and years, and just build one thing and don’t change the brand. Don’t change the main message.

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Julia Nimchinski: Can you share your thinking? Why is it? I mean, there are obvious points, but it’s a really challenging aspect of marketing, especially in the age of AI, when you are seeing, I mean, in the age of AI part is on every website now, obviously. But

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Julia Nimchinski: How do you? I mean, how do you balance? Being relevant and being consistent

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Sangram Vajre: Yeah, it’s hard as marketers. We all want shiny new objects. We all love new things. I love to do a lot more things all the time on it. So when we start thinking about how we go, after all of these organizations and all the different positioning the big challenge really is, can you be consistent

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Sangram Vajre: with one thing? So as an example, the way I think about is macro level and micro level. Your macro level positioning should not change for a decade if you really start thinking about it. So you think about Chick-fil-a still eat more chicken, and I still know the Vp. Of marketing there, and they’re like man we do market testing. And we still do not have 100% penetration. I’m like, who in the world doesn’t know that Chick-fil-a stands for, but

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Sangram Vajre: they still are focused on that one macro level thing, and what we did with Abm. And now, Gtm, the same thing

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Sangram Vajre: for a decade. But then the micro level you can keep experimenting. And I think what people miss on is they start experimenting at the macro level.

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Sangram Vajre: Go ahead and start changing their big point of view all of a sudden. Today I was account based advertising tomorrow. I’m account based. So now in that sense, now you’re confusing your audience big time. So at the way I shift is macro level, and and then micro level

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Julia Nimchinski: Make absolute sense. Emma and Carrie welcome. We are going to start your session in 5 min, and we’re continuing with Syngram. Still.

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Julia Nimchinski: Sengram, what are your thoughts on the man creation?

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Julia Nimchinski: It’s been really popular debate on the Linkedin wilderness. I know that Carrie is following it

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Sangram Vajre: Oh, my gosh! I love what Kerry has been posting about it and everything. Emma, good to see you! Are we still talking about? Demand generation as a thing. I saw Colin Fleming’s post on this thing today, literally this morning, and he was talking about on his keynote. The idea of brand versus demand. And if you you all have seen the go to market operating system, I think.

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Sangram Vajre: like we have just said Brand, and demand is like one part, it’s not brand versus demand. It’s brand drives demand.

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Sangram Vajre: And I think this whole debate about demand generation versus. I think ultimately what you have is you are a revenue marketer. You’re really a marketer, and revenue demand, lead, brand positioning product. All of those are just attributes assigned to you on a particular day at a particular time, but ultimately your job is to drive revenue. Most b 2 b businesses never hire a marketer as their 1st hire.

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Sangram Vajre: They don’t. They have a product team or something. And now, with AI going faster on that, they will probably hire sales ever before they hire marketing. So the whole point of marketing is to elevate, go faster in the marketplace. So you typically never hire a marketer as the 1st person. As a matter of fact, all of our advisor we’re like, don’t hire it. Don’t. Don’t hire a marketer at an executive level too quickly, because you need initially ways to just execute

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Sangram Vajre: on things. So the job of marketer, if you like it or not, especially in b 2 b is to grow the business. You didn’t start the business. You’re growing the business. So if you don’t align with those metrics you’re going to lose out, and my favorite one we talk about as part of manifesto for for go to market. I wish I knew this before. I’m a slow learner. So it took me 2 decades of building 2 companies to get to that position of understanding nrr.

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Sangram Vajre: and the value of nrr, so if there’s a single marketer out there that doesn’t know what Nrr. Is, or how whatever they do connect to the Nrr. Of the company. They’re going to lose their job in the next few weeks or months, because

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Sangram Vajre: if you do things that are not supporting. Nrr, you’re actually building a business on complete sand. And it’s gonna have impact on it. No matter how much pipeline you create, all of those things, you’re gonna drop off at some point. So it’s really important for marketers to not get into the demand. Lead all of those things, but rather just realize that your job is to grow your business, and if you don’t do that, and if you’re not connected with

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Sangram Vajre: metrics like Nrr, you’re going to lose it

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Julia Nimchinski: Syngram. A lot of marketing leaders in our community are experiencing almost like almost like

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Julia Nimchinski: hectic feelings. And Fomo with, especially with all of the updates with AI and the politics and everything. So I’m just curious. If you were a Cmo today, what would be the top 3 priorities you would focus on

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Sangram Vajre: Well, first, st I’ll just go ask the CEO what their top 3 priorities are, and that will be my top 3 priorities. There’s no, I don’t need my own top 3 priorities. If the board and the business has this, those are going to be my priorities. Second, my 1st team is my executive team, not my direct reports by any stretch. So what is my executive team made up of, and how we can support each other to get to that business. And then, lastly.

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Sangram Vajre: I think everybody has to spend. If you’re not spending at least an hour like I’m talking very, very generously 1 h, like, you know, you should be doing more than that, like I personally spend at least 2 HA day on AI training my models that we’re building and saying, What does it do when we put that model in, and change or testing different models in it?

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Sangram Vajre: People are still at the rudimentary level. If so if you are a Cmo and you, all you use AI for is to put your podcasting thing and turn it into a blog and asking your team to do it. You’re missing

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Sangram Vajre: whole point of what the wave is. It should be your greatest input to all of your strategy conversations. You should be able to go in every single meeting with insane amount of insights into what should we do, and actually be the person who facilitates? I think Cmos are in the best position to do that, to be a strategic leader and say.

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Sangram Vajre: how are we going to do this? Here’s the market. Here’s the data. Here’s the insights. Here’s what we can, what? What level of insights we have. Now let’s make a decision on what bets we want to do. That’s your job. That’s your job. So that’s if I’m a Cmo today, I’ll just focus on those 3 things in that order

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Julia Nimchinski: Beautiful Sangra. We have 1 min left here.

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Julia Nimchinski: Share more about your work. Lately I’ve been seeing a lot of research, lots of events. What is the best place to go to support you

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Sangram Vajre: Yeah, well, we, I mean, we are writing a lot about go to market. It’s so interesting. We’re going to see companies change their ticker symbols to related to go to market in the years, in months to come. I think it’s really changing. A lot of work we do is go to market advisory. We have launching courses. People can check on my profile. We’re giving free courses out. And then when people want to go deeper on, go to market. Specifically, we would help them

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Sangram Vajre: with our advisory. But it’s all at the transformation level. The CEO has to be part of it. If you don’t have a CEO part of the go to market.

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Sangram Vajre: We are not great fit for you, because we believe CEO owns. Go to market, and and we help that be the truth in those companies, so they can transform

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Julia Nimchinski: This is amazing. Thank you so much. Always a pleasure. And we are transitioning for a real treat here, marketing revolution beyond the quarterly revenue wheel.