The Autonomous Business OS(The Death of the Unicorn Playbook)

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Julia Nimchinski: And we are live

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Julia Nimchinski: welcome to the agenda Ki Summit. Over the next 3 days we’ll dive in into what it really takes to make agenda ki work.

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Julia Nimchinski: and we’re really really excited to kick things off

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Julia Nimchinski: with a new agentic. OS gtm, business OS, welcome, Kelly.

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Julia Nimchinski: and we have Amos for Joseph, joining us in a second.

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Julia Nimchinski: How are you doing.

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Kelly Hopping: Good good! How are you doing? Thanks for having us.

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Julia Nimchinski: We’re really excited.

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Julia Nimchinski: Welcome, Amos.

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Amos Bar Joseph: Hey, Kelly? Hey, Julia? How’s it going.

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Kelly Hopping: Good. How are you doing today.

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Amos Bar Joseph: I’m doing. Well. I’m excited about this chat. Yeah, I’ve been awake all night just thinking about it.

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Kelly Hopping: Hopefully. It’ll be good. It’ll blow your wildest dreams.

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Amos Bar Joseph: Yeah, I’m sure it is. I’m sure it will.

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Julia Nimchinski: To everyone watching. Yeah, you can join the conversation on our slack, and we’ll address your question

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Julia Nimchinski: closer to the end of the session. And yeah, 25 min. Let’s kick things off. Kelly.

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Kelly Hopping: All right. Sounds good. Well, I’m Kelly hopping. I’m the chief marketing officer at Demand base. We are thick in the world of using agents and AI throughout our product. And so I got super excited the opportunity to meet Amos Bar Joseph. He’s the CEO and founder of Swan AI, and he is kind of blowing off the doors on normal

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Kelly Hopping: or traditional thinking. I think right now, with his kind of radical vision on really the future of business. And really, how autonomous companies can achieve 10 million dollars per arr per employee just by leveraging strategic AI implementation. So right now, there’s all kinds of AI hype and crazy. But I think this is a very like

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Kelly Hopping: tactical, manageable, practical, pragmatic approach to thinking about this. So before we go into any questions at all, Amos, like one. Did I capture that right? And 2. What in the world does that mean?

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Amos Bar Joseph: Yeah. So you captured perfectly, Kelly, if I could actually take you with me to every call that I have, and have you just introduce me. That would be amazing. Right? Can we?

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Amos Bar Joseph: yeah. So we believe that you know the the old unicorn playbook is dead. It’s over. You know, it’s not my 1st rodeo, I’ve actually, you know, built, scaled, and sold to b 2 b startups before you know, raise funds. Built the initial team. You know, scaled the sales team to 6 to 7. Figure, you know enterprise sales, then to acquisition

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Amos Bar Joseph: position, and and you know what worked 10 years ago. It’s not working today, right? And I think, you know, there are like 2 main tailwinds

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Amos Bar Joseph: that are happening like in the background. They’re really kind of pushing away. You know that the unicorn playbook 1st of all, that the growth at all costs model is it’s over right, it’s over, and you know, raise big before you have product market fit scale to 50 employees before you get to your 1st 1 million dollars. Rr, then try to brute. Force your way into 10 million dollars

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Amos Bar Joseph: are. And even if you got there, your entire company is operating on a kind of really sick foundation that is focused on valuation, inflation rather than value creation.

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Amos Bar Joseph: Then, you know, if you, you combine it with the you know, another tale which is like AI broke. The equation of scale means growing headcount.

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Amos Bar Joseph: it’s broken. And so you see, companies like lovable or cursor or bot, who are, you know, getting to 1,000,001.5 million dollars arr per employee. They’re scaling to 20 million dollar arr, which is, you know, a 20 person team. You see that these are like different types of companies there. They’re like operating on a different operating system, right? Like AI, native at the core. And so it’s 1.

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Amos Bar Joseph: We believe that this is like the beginning of a new trend in business. As you just said, Kelly, there’s a different operating system, and how to run and scale a business. We call it the autonomous business. OS, and you know we’re building Swan like that, and I’d love to, you know, to share, you know, the the behind the scenes and answer everything that the audience has to ask.

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Kelly Hopping: Yeah, for sure. Okay, so I’m going to just clarify a couple of things really quick. What do you think drove? Because I agree with you. We certainly see it, but the growth at all cost mindset just being dead, I mean, obviously we had Silicon Valley Blank Bank blow up a few years ago. All of a sudden you saw that those didn’t make sense. Do you think the Vcs are no longer pouring the money in, or is it that now they don’t just care about top line. They also care about bottom line. So efficient growth is really the magic like, what is the background behind that.

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Amos Bar Joseph: Yeah, no. You actually mentioned to the most prominent factors. So one is, if you look from the Vc perspective, you know, when money pours in. They only care about growth right? When money is dry they care about the bottom line right, and want to see efficiency at the core of the business. And so it doesn’t matter to just show growth. If you don’t have any, you know, operational

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Amos Bar Joseph: profit margins at work, it doesn’t. Doesn’t you know, work anymore. And then from the other side, like from like a macroeconomics perspective, you know.

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Amos Bar Joseph: are we getting into a recession? It doesn’t really matter if we are or not. We’re not getting into another bubble again, you know. It’s getting harder for businesses to get capital out there to actually get the same amount of output for the same amount of input. So Vcs get that pressure from their lps from outside. And we see that a lot of trends that are happening in the startup world are driven

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Amos Bar Joseph: by Vcs that are impacted by macroeconomics. So you see that supply chain kind of getting up all the way to the founders. And what I believe is that you know, the autonomous business model is really about changing that equation. So it’s not about the people who hold the capital anymore. It’s about the people who could scale intelligence. And so it kind of shifts. The equation gives more powers to smbs and to founders

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Amos Bar Joseph: to actually operate, you know, less capital heavy businesses, and scale further with, you know, a leaner team.

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Kelly Hopping: Yeah.

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Kelly Hopping: yeah, I mean, it makes me think like, I mean, I’m probably older than you. But I remember the days of sort of like bifurcating the market between the kind of traditional companies and the born in the cloud companies. There was this big pivot of those folks that were now like these cloud-based versus these sort of heavy server hosting type companies. They moved to the cloud. Is this the next sort of big pivot, as you think about from the like throw bodies at problem mindset before to now actually scale efficiently through this intelligence network that you’re talking about.

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Amos Bar Joseph: Yeah, it’s a great question. So you know, the cloud analogy is a super powerful analogy. But I think there is something different right now. So because, like this is a sess, mix shift, it’s not. It’s not an incremental growth. And

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Amos Bar Joseph: the the main notion behind it is that we believe that the entire operating system of the business is gonna change. So we see it right now, like,

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Amos Bar Joseph: the 1st wave of AI technology companies, you know, had very limited creativity. They just tried to mimic you know, specific roles and replace them with AI, right? So you had. You know. Sdr, so let’s do. AI, Sdr, right? You had support. Let’s do AI support, and

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Amos Bar Joseph: we believe that there’s a very low glass ceiling, for just, you know, getting cheap labor with low quality. Right? We had these solutions, for, like, you know, decades, you could go to development countries and you know, get, you know, cheap Sdrs with poor quality. It’s not something really new for the world. The innovation won’t come from there. The what we believe at Swan is that this new technology wave used properly.

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Amos Bar Joseph: It’s going to change how humans and AI collaborate at the core of the business and will create new functions. So at Swan. You know, we’re trying to get to 30 million dollar AR with just 3 founders. We’re not doing that by hiring more AI workers.

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Amos Bar Joseph: What we’re trying to discover is, how will the 100 X seller workflow look like? How can we turn one person into the 100 X seller? How can we turn the product person on the team to be the 100 X product. And how can we turn the engineering leaders into the 100 X engineer. And so to discover that basically, you need to reimagine these processes from the bottom up. Not just try to replace them.

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Amos Bar Joseph: You know, manual work with AI.

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Kelly Hopping: Gotcha gotcha. Yeah, I keep hearing this this phrase of we’re now in sort of the prove it era of AI, right. It used to be that it was just AI whitewashing across like, you talked about this sort of early solve some basic need states. So you could kind of put automation around. But now it’s really in this like, add value to my organization. Multiply the impact of my sales force. Multiply the impact of every single seller.

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Kelly Hopping: So. So I’ll go back to the basic on that you mentioned this concept of autonomous business. OS, like that being the sort of death of the playbook. What do you mean by building an autonomous business? What does that really mean?

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Amos Bar Joseph: Yeah, yeah, that’s a great question. So 1st of all, the underlying concept of an autonomous business means that you could scale with intelligence, not with headcount. Okay? So you can increase your output without adding headcount. It’s not about, you know, anti hiring. It’s not about trying to to get to. You know the ultimate scale with just 3 people. It’s not about that, but it’s about

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Amos Bar Joseph: changing the way that your business grow. It requires a deep change in your operating system of your business what we call the autonomous business OS, and it leans heavily on human AI collaboration. So human empowerment, not human replacement. Kelly, you mentioned just earlier that AI is at the phase of, you know. Show me how it becomes a force multiplier

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Amos Bar Joseph: not. It’s not about replacing, so I don’t want, you know more Sdrs, so I would hire AI Sdrs. I want to have you know. My, you know my human tech stack like my human stack. The folks that are, you know, most talented within my team. I want to multiply them.

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Amos Bar Joseph: That’s what I want to do. Basically, I don’t want to get just an off the shelf model. So the autonomous business model kind of like assumes that in a world where everyone has AI, and it’s like native to our entire operations. The only advantage that you have is your human stack, not your tech stack. Actually, it’s the people that are working within your company and have a unique understanding of the market, has a unique insight into the product.

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Amos Bar Joseph: has a unique skill that no one has. And you’re looking for ways to amplify these characteristics, not to get an off the shelf software that will, you know, rescue you from all your challenges.

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Kelly Hopping: Yeah, yeah, I mean, I love that. I think I always think about AI, as people will say, like, do you think it’ll replace jobs, I mean. Yes, obviously, it will replace a lot of jobs or replace the need for hiring more jobs. Maybe that more. But to your point I always think of it as a sort of revenue accelerator, because I can get more out of every person I have versus trying to like the ultimate goal, like not necessarily to have less people, but to get more out of the people I have.

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Kelly Hopping: So I love that kind of force, multiplier concept. Tell me about how Swan fits in this, are you? The Creator is Swan, the creator of all the agents that you’re talking about, that are automating these workflows? Or are you building an ecosystem of external, internal and building like a unified network on a shared set of data, full transparency, full alignment across your whole tech stack? How’s that working.

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Amos Bar Joseph: Yeah. So 1st of all, like the autonomous business. So as it’s not about just Swan, okay, we’re not trying to tell everyone you should use Swan for everything that you do in your business, and we actually believe that you know the future belongs to these autonomous businesses, and they will win because they will use that human AI collaboration at the core. And you know, we look at solutions emerging right now that are powering these types of businesses

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Amos Bar Joseph: Medina is building paid that are trying to collect, you know. Nail the you know billing space in that OS, you have les, you know, founder of agency trying to nail that you know customers, you know success. Part of, you know that. OS, so, we’re starting to see that super category, you know, being formed. And these types of companies are built. For you know.

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Amos Bar Joseph: businesses that are reimagining these processes from the bottom up. They are built for different types of workflows. And for you know, you know, people that would imagine it just by you know, using this type of new technology right? So swan the way that it fits. It takes the you know the Gtm part of that new OS, right? So, swan we look at, not as an AI. Sdr.

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Amos Bar Joseph: it’s actually more like an AI revops. It’s like an AI Gtm engineer. Okay, that’s how we think, Swan. So people, you know, when they look at Swan, they actually think it’s like lovable for Gtm, if you’re familiar with lovable, it’s kind of like, you know, an engineer can that can write an application for you just by prompting it. Right? So Swan gives Smbs the superpower to kind of turn any go-to-market idea into a live experience

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Amos Bar Joseph: experiment in seconds from prompt to pipeline. Basically. So what we want to give these smbs is, you know, to break the barrier that they have between them and their Gtm systems so that they could.

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Amos Bar Joseph: or all their knowledge of their market, of their buyers, all their unique insights into these live experiments, so they can discover the best motion for them. So Swan is a discovery tool. It’s actually a tool that enable Smbs to discover the best motion that works for their business and then scale it in a repeatable way, so that they could scale with intelligence, not with headcount.

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Kelly Hopping: Gotcha. Okay? So you mentioned you just brought up Smbs. I’ve read articles about you. Where you talk about the the future is smbs like this is the era for Smbs. I don’t know if it’s the next decade 2 decades. I don’t know how far out we look these days in tech. But what do you mean by that? Is this because of the empowerment that comes now? The technology has caught up to make Smbs to multiply the impact of an Smb to operate and drive the results of a bigger company, but with fewer, fewer resources, because they’re starting from 0.

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Amos Bar Joseph: Yeah. So yeah, I’m a big believer in in Smbs. I don’t know what about, you know, 2 decades from now, maybe 2 decades from now. We’re all you know. Be enslaved by the AI. And no, we won’t need any businesses. I’m talking about the next 5 years. But I again. I see 2 you know, market forces right now. So one

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Amos Bar Joseph: he, if headcount is not an advantage in an AI world, it’s actually a disadvantage, because it kind of creates a much. You know, bloated shift, that it’s hard to move and adapt. Then enterprise

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Amos Bar Joseph: enterprises lose their only advantage over their Smb competitors, which is that they are big, right? And if you know, blow is a disadvantage, then Smbs could actually, you know, capitalize on that capitalize on this new technology trend, you know, make the shift into being an autonomous business faster and then capture more market share on behalf of the you know the biggest dogs in their space.

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Amos Bar Joseph: So that’s like one, you know. Trend that we’re seeing. And

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Amos Bar Joseph: if you actually connected with the other thing, so large language models

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Amos Bar Joseph: are not something new. Okay? So AI has been around for 2 decades. It actually existed from the seventies, but from the last 2 decades, companies like Facebook and Uber has been using the latest AI technologies to power their businesses. What we’re seeing right now is the democratization

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Amos Bar Joseph: of these AI models. What does it mean? It means that businesses that didn’t have access to these types of solutions now have. And who are these businesses? Those are smbs that either didn’t have the resources from a budget perspective or the technical resources in house to actually deploy these models and use them.

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Amos Bar Joseph: So the moment that you have, for example, an AI Gtm. Engineer that can enable you to use the most advanced AI capabilities within your Smb and turn your processes from the upside down, you get like an unfair advantage. And so we believe that in the next 5 years the smb segment will be the hottest segment to actually work with, you know. You see all the Vcs investing in b 2 b enterprise.

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Amos Bar Joseph: So you’ll see them running around following the companies that are, you know, heading and working with the smb segment. Actually.

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Kelly Hopping: Interesting. Okay, we should. A question come in from the chat. This is from our friend Sean, he said. The last 10 years in the Sas industry companies have complained about having too many tools, and that’s always the number one issue that employees highlight. Maybe it’s different. Smb, I don’t know. But how do you make sure that these autonomous business, oss don’t become just another tool. What is the path in there to.

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Amos Bar Joseph: Yeah.

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Kelly Hopping: Either streamline replace. What does that look like.

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Amos Bar Joseph: Yeah, it’s actually a wonderful question. And it really touches on the core of AI agents. So

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Amos Bar Joseph: the autonomous business OS and AI agents by and large, has a wonderful characteristic of not looking at things from a tooling perspective, but looking at things from processes. Perspective. Okay? So agents, what they do is they consolidate what we had before to use different types of tools to run a specific process. Agents can now take over their shoulder

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Amos Bar Joseph: an entire process on their own. What required, you know, skipping between 8 different tools, you can just do with one. I’ll give you an example. So, for example, Swan, you know. Shameless plug, of course. But yeah, just happened to be able to give Swan as an example.

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Amos Bar Joseph: That’s good. Oh, yeah, yeah, maybe maybe my next example would be demand based Kelly. But maybe.

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Kelly Hopping: That’ll work. Yeah.

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Amos Bar Joseph: Yeah. So Swan, for example, takes this notion of reaching out, you know, to website visitors. Okay, to 1st party intent. And you know what usually took a lot of different tools to do that for Smbs, right for smbs that had a lot of disparate tooling just to run that. So maybe you know, they’re using rb, 2 B, which is a new company right now, and they try to push it into clay to just run these types of enrichment.

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Amos Bar Joseph: which means that from clay they try to push it into. Hey, you reach with Linkedin automation and to use a different email sequencing and to push it into Hubspot. All these types of tools. Now, Swan, actually, you know, consolidate everything it lives in slack. You can just chat with it in slack, and it can take that motion from end to end. You don’t need to interact with any other tool. You can just work with Swan directly. Tell it. This is what I want to do with my visitors. This is how

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Amos Bar Joseph: want to reach out to them, etc. It would just take care of that process end to end. And so the future of the of the autonomous business. OS, it’s not about less or more tooling, but it’s a more. It’s about working on processes of the business. So it’s more aligned with how the business operates. And it’s not about tooling. It’s about processes.

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Kelly Hopping: Got it. Okay, that makes sense. But one thing. So you talked about Llms have been around forever. Machine all the machine learning demand base is an AI powered tool. Same thing. We’ve been around for a long time now. AI has become cool, and so now, all of a sudden, you know we have the agents and all the automation built in, and all of that. So I get all that. But I feel like the thing that makes demand base. And even the products that we partner with

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Kelly Hopping: great is is the data that feeds it right at the end of the day, like AI, is only as good as the as the you know. The gift of the garbage that gets fed into it is the gift of the garbage that comes out the other side. So how do you? If you’re thinking about processes across the organ, you’re feeding it. What is the way that? How do we think about the unification of data or the alignment of data across, whether it’s the tech stack or just through Swan as it touches different parts of the process like.

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Kelly Hopping: how do you? How do you verify the the validity and credibility of the data that’s feeding your agents that are impacting every part of your business? Or if you’re using multiple ais, I assume they’re all being fed potentially by all different data. And how do you ensure it’s clean.

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Amos Bar Joseph: Definitely. Yeah. So that’s that’s an interesting point. And it’s important to actually look at it from 2 perspectives. So 1st of all, I do believe that data is a moat in the AI world, right? And you know where models gets commoditized and everyone has access to the, you know, to these models. So data is really kind of something that could differentiate you from the rest. And you know, at Swan we made a big bet that

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Amos Bar Joseph: you think that 1st party data is actually the most valuable data that go to market teams could possess. And so, you know, if you have it in your Crm, if it’s someone coming to your website, if it’s just something that you know and other people don’t, then you can take advantage of it in ways that other, you know, your competitors can’t. Right? So for example, if it’s like closed lost information in your Crm or like call transcript.

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Amos Bar Joseph: or if it’s like, you know, website visitors, they have come to your website or things like that. You know, these types of data points. Could power unique, go to market motions that were, you know, your competitors just can’t really run right. But I think that it’s always super important to emphasize the other perspective, which data is useless

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Amos Bar Joseph: without a hypothesis, without a Pov without someone. Actually, you know, guiding the AI how to use it. And I see a lot of Gtm leaders just looking at. You know these AI solutions to say, what should I do?

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Amos Bar Joseph: Okay, I need the AI to tell me what to do. This is the wrong type of thinking that would lead you to, you know, just buying expensive shelfware that would just sit on your shelf for like a year and will decay. And that’s it, basically. And I think that you know, go to market leaders who start become really proactive in thinking about how they should use AI as a tool to amplify their team, to amplify their thinking. To.

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Amos Bar Joseph: you know, the most creative go to market motions. And so data is a mode. And it’s strategic asset. But it’s not the answer. The humans, like your insights, your unique understanding of the market. That will always be. You know the answer.

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Kelly Hopping: Gotcha. Okay? Very cool. That’s helpful. We just had. We had a question come into the chat from Arena, and I think you just answered it, based on what you just said. Hey, John Miller?

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Kelly Hopping: so one last question before we move on. So in the the last 30 days alone. I’ve read, and maybe this post is a couple weeks old. But you talked about generating 1 million dollars in pipeline, onboarding 25 customers, shipping 20 something major features, resolving 500 support tickets, all of that done by an agent, 4 different agents, 5 different, 10 different.

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Amos Bar Joseph: So no. All of that done by 3 humans. Okay.

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Kelly Hopping: We’re humans. Okay.

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Amos Bar Joseph: Humans powered by AI agents supporting them. Okay? And it’s a. It’s a big difference in how we see things. But yes, maybe it’s the same same thing from another perspective. Yeah, you know, I run a 1 person. Go to market department. I you know I generate 1.5 million dollars, you know, in pipeline every month, just, you know, without any marketing. Spend marketing

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Amos Bar Joseph: team. Sdr. Support nothing. I take care of the entire process from demand generation to actually a pipeline generation to converting that into revenues onboarding and success, etc. And I couldn’t have done it without, like the agentic swarm that I’ve built to support me all the way from, you know, monitoring linkedin interactions with my posts, you know. Monitoring connection requests that people sent me

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Amos Bar Joseph: monitoring our website visitors, you know, monitoring and actually analyzing the request, access submissions, helping me with the calls. All the funnel that I’ve just mentioned. I have agents that are supporting with my efforts that I could just focus on scaling relationships and intimacy without all the hassle that is required to do around it.

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Kelly Hopping: Gotcha. I love that I. Yeah, the way you. That was a good clarification. I appreciate the redirect there on humans using the support of all these agents around them. I think that that makes a ton of sense.

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Kelly Hopping: I know we’re coming up on time. There are a couple more questions in the chat which I encourage you to check out, maybe. But a lot of questions about Cdp, about limitations on 1st party data about, you know, traditional like AI on sas versus truly, in a real agentic model. So just pointing those out, we appreciate the questions coming in. But I want to be respectful of our time. So, Julia.

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Kelly Hopping: how we doing.

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Julia Nimchinski: Such a treat. Thank you so much, Kelly. Thank you so much, Amos. What’s the best way to support.

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Amos Bar Joseph: Hey? John, good luck, guys.

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Kelly Hopping: Good luck. Thanks so much, Amos. I enjoyed the chat.

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Amos Bar Joseph: Me, too, Kelly. It was a pleasure. Bye, guys.